Linux has better Windows compatibility than Vista


Don’t Screw With My Games:

I have been using Vista for well over a year now (since Beta 1). Of course Vista is slow, its bloated (over 10x the size of XP), aero kills system performance (even though this should be done on the video card), networking is pathetically slow, etc etc. We all know Vista sucks.

But recently my blood has been set to a rolling boil by the fact that most of my games just don’t work in Vista. At all. Its so bad that out of spite I have decided to make a list of games that work better in Linux under Wine than in Vista. These are games that were originally written to run in Windows XP, are broken in Vista, but magically work in Linux.

You are probably wondering what Wine is, so from the authors:

…an Open Source implementation of the Windows API on top of X, OpenGL, and Unix.

Think of Wine as a compatibility layer for running Windows programs. Wine does not require Microsoft Windows, as it is a completely free alternative implementation of the Windows API consisting of 100% non-Microsoft code, however Wine can optionally use native Windows DLLs if they are available. Wine provides both a development toolkit for porting Windows source code to Unix as well as a program loader, allowing many unmodified Windows programs to run on x86-based Unixes, including Linux, FreeBSD, Mac OS X, and Solaris.

Which means basically Wine is a program that lets you run Windows programs outside of Windows (on a Mac or Linux, for example). There is also a version of Wine called WineX / Cedega, which is written for playing games. Specifically, WineX supports DirectX. Unlike Wine, Cedega actually costs money, but its still cheap when you compare the cost of it to an actual Vista install. How could a handful of programmers working in their spare time beat thousands of full-time Microsoft employees at their own game (hey Vista only took 5+ years)? A couple of things: 1. the Wine guys are good at what they do. 2. Vista is a full scale train wreck.

All tests were run on the same dual-boot machine. My version of Vista is completely patched, and so are my video card drivers, in case you were wondering. For Linux, I am running Mepis 7.0. The hardware in my machine is: AMD Athlon 64 3200+, 1.5 GB RAM, NVidia GeForce 5 FX Series.

Enough introductions, onto the results.


Test #1 Soldat:

Soldat is a free indy game that has been described as Worms + Counter Strike, its supposed to be fun. I wouldn’t know. I tried to play it and it didn’t work.

Its a game that is still being actively developed, the version I used was from Aug 2007, well after Vista’s release. Even still, I couldn’t get it work on Vista, regardless of the configuration.

On Vista:

I get a grey screen with some red boxes, and some green boxes. Then the screen goes black and the entire machine freezes. I need to reboot. There is absolutely no reason for anything but drivers written by a retarded monkey to take down any operating system. The fact that a very simple game can take Vista down completely is pretty pathetic.

On Wine in Linux (not Cedega):

The default configuration does not work, but unlike in Vista, when Soldat crashes, it doesn’t bring the entire operating system down with it – the process just terminates. To get it to work, I have to turn all the settings way down, but it works… slowly.


Test #2 Darwinia:

So we’ve found one game still under active development. That didn’t work. Whats next? How about one published while Vista was being developed? If compatibility problems came up during Vista development, they should be able to catch and fix the problem. I had exactly the game that fit the bill – I recently bought a title named Darwinia from Circuit City for a whopping $1.40. This game was completed in 2005, but is still patched occasionally.
On Vista:

Similar to Soldat, this game froze Vista cold. The screen goes completely black and its time for a reboot. Patching the game to the most recent version fixed the problem, but the performance is so bad (10 fps) that even when it works its unplayable.

On Wine in Linux (not Cedega):

Again, its shocking to see better application compatibility on Wine than in an actual version of Windows. Although Darwinia fails to run in Vista unpatched, it runs fine under Wine (even at a tolerable speed)


Test #3 Blackthorne in DOSBox:

Blackthorne is one of Blizzard’s first game titles, and its a real classic. In order to play most games from the DOS era (pre Windows 95), its necessary run them on a program called DOSBox, which is a program that fakes being an old computer, which allows old games to run. To read more about either check out my Best Abandonware Games post.

On DOSBox in Vista:

Blackthorne doesn’t run by itself, but this isn’t bad or surprising. DOSBox not working is the problem. In DOSbox, the Blackthorne hangs after outputting a message about the music composer of the game. I try turning off all sound in the game configuration. Still no dice. The DOSBox window hangs, I need to go to Task Manager (ctrl+alt+delete) to kill the window. Hey, this is an improvement. At least I didn’t have to shut off the machine.

On DosBOX in Linux:

Doesn’t run under Wine, also not surprising. In DOSBox there is the same message about the music, but then Blackthorne fails in the way it was supposed to. It prints an error message about the sound card, exits, and puts me back at the prompt. I don’t have to go to Task Manager to kill anything. I don’t have to reboot. Changing SoundBlaster Pro to SoundBlaster solves the issue – the game works with sound.


Test #4 Civilization 4:

Listen, I’ve been playing thee Civilization series for something like 17 years. I love all of them. When I get Vista installed on my computer I’m just praying to myself that everything works ok. PLEASE don’t take this away from me. I might loose it.

On Vista:

Put the CD in and install it. So far so good. When I run it, I get this delightful message:

Civilization 4 Doesn’t Work in Vista

Motherf#&!!! This is more than I can handle. If you [Microsoft] know something is wrong, fix it. Don’t pass the blame onto the game author. You are the one who broke it.

To add insult to injury, actually running the game does what? I’ll give you a guess. If you need a hint, look at what happened with the first two games. Thats right, it hung my computer.

When you mess with Civilization, its personal. I can handle some indy games that are only played by a few thousand people not working, but this is a HUGE title, one of the best sellers in 2005. How can you knowingly break this and claim that with Vista you get “Simply Great Gaming“? I’d have a better time playing with a steaming pool of diarrhea.

Update: With the 1.61 patch, Civ4 no longer freezes, but it like in WineX, it does not recognize the cd labeled “Play / Disc 2″ when in the drive. An improvement, but still not good enough.

On Wine in Linux (not Cedega):

DirectX fails to install. This isn’t cool, but at least it doesn’t hang my machine.

On WineX / Cedega in Linux:

Install works fine. I fire it up, but the game can’t locate the CD so it won’t run. This isn’t cool, but at least it doesn’t require a reboot. Still, a better result than in Vista. This failure was experienced by someone else as well.


Conclusion:

This post is clearly a bit biased. What shocked me though was how easy it was to find games that didn’t run under Vista but did in Linux by using Wine or DOSBox. I’m not a huge gamer, so I don’t have a huge collection of games to try out, but even still with just a few hours of frustrating work, I have been able to show that not only is Linux a reasonable alternative to Vista for gaming (XP is still king though), but also that Linux handles application failures more gracefully than Vista. Every game but Blackthorne crashed my Vista box, this didn’t happen a single time under Linux.

Make your own call.

Update: If you want a more trustworthy review of games in Vista (Beta 2, not RTM), check out Extremetech’s article, or Gamespot (which confirms the Vista / Civ 4 failure). This review is just for my configurations on one machine, and I intentionally didn’t try hard to get broken things to work. You’ll get results more like theirs if you have the patience to track through forums and publisher websites for workarounds.

Update: I recently tested the performance of Vista compared to Windows Server 2008. Windows Server comes out ahead by 33% in ram usage, and 10% in processing speed of benchmarks.

Update: Vista compatibility is bad, but SP1 compatibility is worse.

Update: Things I actually liked about Windows Vista.

165 Responses

  1. Nice write up, but you might be able to get more of them games working on Linux if you use Wine-Doors and PlayOnLinux with wine.

    http://www.playonlinux.com/en/

    http://www.wine-doors.org/wordpress/

  2. With a bit of work it’s possible to get Civ working nearly flawlessly with Wine:

    http://tombuntu.com/index.php/2007/10/24/civilization-iv-on-linux-updated-how-to/

    Considering how recent Civ 4 is, it’s shocking that it doesn’t work in Vista.

  3. Thanks Tom,
    I wrote the post more as of a critique of Vista than as a claim to how good Wine is. Will Wine ever be a mainstream alternative to any version of Windows? Probably not. The shocking thing though, is that Vista is so bad that we can actually start comparing the two.

    If I wanted, there probably are ways to get Civ 4 running in Vista also – but average users shouldn’t be punished for buying a new computer with a new operating system. The fact that things don’t “just work” (they always should), is the problem with Vista.

  4. not to butt into the conversation here – but the one thing about Vista that annoys the shit out of me is the User Account Control.
    It doesn’t actually seem to control anything except my stress level.
    I finally figured out how to turn it off, but now I get pop-ups telling me that I’m in danger because I turned off a program that’s about as useful as testicle lint (its a rare condition).
    GDMFPOS!!!

  5. Here was a post that got tossed by our spam filter, but it was also kindly posted on Digg. So here goes:

    **************************************************

    Oh, this is rubbish and you all know it and they tested a whole 4 games, watch out!

    1. I downloaded Soldat 1.4.2 ( http://www.soldat.pl/download.html ) and here is a screenshot ( http://aycu09.webshots.com/image/41008/20014958523 … ) of it working perfectly on Vista, and this is 64 bit Vista too.

    2. I downloaded the demo, started it and guess what? It works perfectly, here’s a screenshot ( http://aycu31.webshots.com/image/41630/20014289521 … ) to prove it.

    3. First, officially DOSBox DOES work on Vista ( http://www.dosbox.com/wiki/Dosbox_and_Vista ) and second, here’s a screenshot ( http://aycu05.webshots.com/image/43564/20014444226 … ) of it working on 64bit Vista.

    4. I don’t have Civilisations 4 on hand to test, but let’s look at what this liar wrote and his screenshot:

    First, the moron says “If you [Microsoft] know something is wrong, fix it. Don’t pass the blame onto the game author. You are the one who broke it.” Let’s take a look at this, Microsoft is not shifting blame, if you look at the screenshot you can check for solutions on MICROSOFT’S website, second, this little dialogue is more help than you’d ever get trying to run a game in Wine and thirdly, why the hell is Microsoft expected to support every app? And they’ve done so brilliantly, too.

    Second.. why should we trust this person that the game made his system crash? That’s BS that it made his system ‘hang’ too. Anyway, I did some searching and found several sites/threads saying it works, and many of these are for Beta2 and other builds which aren’t the final, so that means Civ4 was working /years/ ago on Vista.

    http://www.iexbeta.com/wiki/index.php/Windows_Vist
    http://www.extremetech.com/slideshow_viewer/0,1205

    http://ntcompatible.com/compatdbprint13689.html

    http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1968999
    http://www.vistareadygames.com/showthread.php?p=20
    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=200704

    And you guys accuse Microsoft of FUD and lying, stupid, pathetic hypocrites. Actually, I might Digg this, hopefully get it to the frontpage than people can see what a liar the person who made this story and those who Dugg it are.

  6. Sorry about the delay in accepting the comments and replying, but here we go. In response to the above:

    First of all, the point isn’t that Wine is 100% better than Vista or that it can/should/will replace it. The point is, from a customer’s perspective, buying a new computer and using Vista is a punishment compared to using the XP machine they bought 3 years ago.

    1. I know Soldat *can* work in vista, but clearly, a ton of people are having trouble running it. Its not just me. Its such a common problem that there is a sticky faq on Vista problems at Soldat Forums.

    Out of curiosity, how does a screenshot (which is broken) tell you its working perfectly?

    2. I’m jealous, do you want to trade computers? I wish it worked on mine.

    3. I know. If you read the post I linked to about Abandonware I talk about DOSBox. I’m not trying to rag on DOSBox – I think its an *awesome* product, and I give total props to the guys working on it just so I can dick around and play Starcontrol 2 for the 10 billionth time.

    It just amuses me that I can get something written for DOS to run better in Linux than Vista.

    4. Don’t call me a liar until you come here an look at my computer, and watch it crash.

    I understand that new operating systems will break things. I guarantee you I understand that better than you, but if there is a known problem with a known solution, why can’t the OS just repair it automatically?

    They have NOT done a brilliant job. Why do applications like Visual Studio 2005 not even run properly on Vista? These two products were written at the same time in the same place, released months apart from each other, and even they don’t play perfectly together. Thats unacceptable

    Who knows why my machine crashes. I don’t like it either. But if Civ4 was working, I can guarantee you I’d be having fun playing that instead of wasting my time on this post.

    FUD my ass. I said XP is “king,” so don’t call me a MS hater. Whats so hypocritical?

    Lets be friends!

    XOXOX :)

  7. Or, you know, you can run the cracked Civ .exe that doesn’t check for the CD. That’s what I do. No, I’m not a pirate, I bought the disk and installed it, but my crummy old Dell c400 doesn’t have an internal CD drive, and I’ll be damned if I’m going to drag a dongle and an external drive around with me everywhere just to play a game that I legally own with all of the files installed on my hard drive…

  8. You can play Star Control natively now in Windows, OS X, and of course Linux. SC2 was released under the GPLv2. The only catch is the current maintainers are obligated to call modern port “The Ur-Quan Masters” rather than “Star Control” as only the game was freed and not the trademarks.

    Check it out at

    sc2.sourceforge.net

  9. Eve-Online (MMORPG) plays wonderfully in Linux, but using Cedega AND it’s easy to install. Check it out on my blog here.

  10. Wow, are you really as stupid as this “article” makes you seem?

    Perhaps stupid isn’t fair. You may be smart, but it’s hidden by your zealotry and extreme fanboy-ness.

  11. Wow, that’s unfortunate that you have all this hate for Vista. I have tons of games and every last one of them has worked on Vista. Not to mention that they seem to work better on Vista than they did on XP, and my system specs aren’t even that great!

    AMD 64 4000+ (939), 1.5 GB DDR 3200 RAM, 7800 GT

    I’ve noticed that my start times are better (yes BETTER), my computer crashes a lot less (as in hasn’t yet to my immediate recollection), doesn’t BSOD, and to top it all off the new Aero theme looks so much better than the ugly ass default theme XP used. UAC is annoying but it does it’s job and I can safely say I haven’t had any run-ins with spyware or adware yet (of course, this is also thanks to using Opera instead of IE or Firefox).

    Vista isn’t perfect, but it’s at least better than XP, I think.

  12. I play Civilization 4 on Vista every day.

  13. Did you…

    – Try compatibility mode?
    – Make sure you have the newest drivers from nVidia?
    – Try with a newer videocard? You’re running a GeForce 5, which is pretty old, and likely poorly supported.
    – Check for Compatibility updates from Microsoft? They periodically release these giant packs that fix issues with tons and tons of apps and games. They haven’t released one in quite some time, though, there were a few shortly after Vista shipped.

    I’ve been happily gaming with Vista since I got it months ago. The OS isn’t perfect, and games don’t run quite as fast, but I haven’t run into any compatibility issue with modern games yet.

  14. Did you try turning off UAC and then using Vista Compatibility Layers on any of these games? I think all Operating Systems are going to have issues with some software, especially older or brand new software. It’s unreasonable to expect Microsoft to field test every game ever made to make sure it works with Vista. The game developer is responsible for patching games to work with Vista. Same goes for other types of software.

  15. Oh gods, what a troll…
    ‘They have NOT done a brilliant job. Why do applications like Visual Studio 2005 not even run properly on Vista? ‘

    Odd, cause it works fine here… as does VS2008. Been using Vista for a little over 6 months in a production environment and while I admit I was kicking and screaming at first, i’ve started to appreciate Vista forcing me into a more efficient way of working (much like the new version of Office).

    Vista adoption is picking up speed for gamers (at least according to Steam, but what do THOSE guys know) and yes, we know that DX9/10 games STILL run slower in Vista than them running in DX9 mode on XP, but with each new driver release, that gets less and less.

    I’d LOVE for Wine to be the better games platform, I’d ditch MS at home in a heartbeat over *nix, but the truth be told, Wine’s come a long, long way and does an incredible amount of stuff but most programs are still a roll of the dice when it comes to working with it.

  16. Actually there’s a patch for VS2005 to run on Vista.

    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929470

    Though you’ll have to install SP1 first on VS2005.

    It was announced earlier that VS2005 is not the development platform for Vista. It’s Orcas which you’ve come to know as VS2008.

  17. Sorry to break it to you, but this is quite possibly the worst study I have seen. For the games you were running, you may as well have complained about your old NES games not working on Gamecube.

    The only game I even recognized was Blackthorne, and it hasn’t correctly worked for any OS since Windows 3.1 in DOS mode. That is without using compatibility mode or at least using Dosbox correctly.

    I am not a Vista fan by any means, I have found that XP is my best choice for gaming as of now. Then again, I haven’t found a use for XP 64 bit yet.

    I also use Linux at times, in several different shapes, and really cant stand it for more than educational purposes (try to write your own drivers for dual monitors one day and find out why).

    From what I have seen ALL of your tested games will actually work under both OS’s, you simply lack the knowledge to use them correctly. Do not tun Vista on an old machine. Your old Betamax player will not understand what to do with an HD DVD nor will your dinosaur PC understand Vista.

    Next time, try benchmarking games made in the last two years, using them on correctly configured/built systems, and for the love of god use spell check.

    It is just good sense.

    • Do not tun Vista on an old machine. Your old Betamax player will not understand what to do with an HD DVD nor will your dinosaur PC understand Vista.
      Next time, try benchmarking games made in the last two years, using them on correctly configured/built systems, and for the love of god use spell check.
      It is just good sense.

      Hmmmn? Re-read what you posted and check your spelling yourself, don’t rely on some piece of software to do the work you should be quite capable of doing using your brain. Guess spellcheck isn’t all that perfect after all.

  18. There is even a native Linux version of Eve-Online – with help from the same Cedega guys. (Windows version wrapped with scaled down Cedega, but it is now officially supported by CCP, so less likelyhood of version upgrade breakage)

  19. You know, you don’t need to run Darwinia with wine!
    Darwinia has a Linux-version, like all games by Introversion.

  20. This is an awesome point I’ve been noticing lately myself. I’ve also gotten various versions of Roller Coaster Tycoon, the Incredible Machine, Quake, and Starcraft going on Linux/Wine just this year, to name a few. It’s quite ironic to see people recommending open source tools like DOSBox for Windows XP play, even!

    If you count XMame and ZSNES for arcade and SNES ROMs, respectively, plus all the other emulators, Linux now runs more games than any other system!

  21. Thanks for all the comments everyone. There are alot of good points here. Yes, my PC is older (from late 2004), yes most of the these games are unpopular so they probably wouldn’t be caught by Windows Application Compatibility testing (no way they were testing dosbox, or soldat).

    Yes, there are tricks that can be done to get these things to work correctly. The point is, an operating system is supposed to make your life easier, and do things for you. Thats the same reason why we have computers in the first place.

    I did:
    – Run as admin
    – Run in XP SP2 Compat mode
    – Update video drivers
    – Update Vista
    – Run current versions of all the games (I suppose this is moot with Blackthorne though)

    And I still had these problems, the Vista install is relatively fresh (about 4 months old), FYI.

    Another thing which was interesting was my DOSBox comparison wasn’t quite fair (but I’m telling you everything else was), as I was running a Linux version of DOSBox in Mepis, and a Vista version in Windows. I didn’t run DOSBox through Wine in Mepis, so there were two different binaries running in those two tests (I actually did try that, and some old games worked, but Blackthorne did not. There, I said it).

    If using an operating system becomes a struggle into getting it to work for you, isn’t it fair to say that its probably not completely successful? If an operating system is powerful (Vista certainly is, so is Linux), but a pain in the ass to use, whats the point?

    Of course the sample size here is one. So don’t consider it a detailed scientific study – consider it a case study in a Vista install that went horribly wrong.

    I’m not a Linux fanboy, and I actually do like a good number of MS products: XP is great, .NET is the best programming framework around, and I can’t live without office.

    My writing of this is a criticism of a technology (Vista) by comparison to a technology that I thought had no chance to even come close (Wine). I will never use Wine as a gaming platform (sorry, its still a bit slow), but I am impressed with how well it works, and how it shines a bright light on Vista’s shortcomings.

    To prove that I have a brain, and can see positive aspects in everything, my next post will be on the improvement Vista brings to the table. How about that?

    Thanks for reading, and I promise, every last thing I have written is 100% true.

  22. I tried to run games like Oblivion in Vista, and they worked but it was too painfully slow, so I went back to using XP for that sort of thing. It runs at a much better speed in WinXP SP 2.

    @OP, one reason why DirectX “fails to install” in Wine is because the official DirectX dll’s are not compatible with Wine AFAIK (unless they changed that by some miracle.) I think that one must use Wine-provided DLL’s for any DirectX stuff :(.

  23. Darwinia has a Linux-version ;)

  24. Even though I don’t completely understand the details of the debate about the pros and cons of Vista – diarrheBOT, I think you rock!!!

  25. As confirmed. Vista do suck. Big time.

  26. The latest couple of versions of Wine have broken a lot of games, so I’d be quite quiet about Vista’s compatibility issues at the moment :-)

  27. @Penguin Pete:

    /If you count XMame and ZSNES for arcade and SNES ROMs, respectively, plus all the other emulators, Linux now runs more games than any other system!/

    Except, you know, Windows.

    Sorry, I love Linux, but love it for what it is, and don’t try to claim its something that it isn’t.

    No, a cartload of unfinished open source projects, half-baked open source knockoffs of commercial games, and the tiny handful of open-source games that are actually pretty amazing do not equal the wealth of high-quality commercial games for Windows. And heck, half of the ones I can think of that are much good are Quake-engine ports, so meh.

    WINE helps, but it isn’t a cure-all yet. I doubt it ever will be.

    @diarrheaBot

    /If using an operating system becomes a struggle into getting it to work for you, isn’t it fair to say that its probably not completely successful? If an operating system is powerful (Vista certainly is, so is Linux), but a pain in the ass to use, whats the point?/

    All OSes have their failings. Linux is often a struggle to get it to work – sometimes needlessly, for stupidly simple, basic reasons. And yes, it’s fair to say that as a desktop environment (Leaving servers aside for a minute), Linux is not completely successful. Vista’s biggest failing is that it thinks it knows better than you and can often simply *not* be told otherwise.

    But I do have to say that I think – while I get the point you are trying to make – you were a bit misleading in your article. Three relatively obscure titles and one commercial title with known compatibility issues. The unspoken other side, of course, is the shelves of games that work just fine in Vista – and tons of them not at all in Linux, even with Wine. Or at least not without more tweaking than is reasonable.

    I also have to say, the fact that you had such spectacular problems with Vista somewhat surprises me. I’m not actually any fan of Vista myself, but my experience with it has been that it’s fairly stable, even if the software running on it isn’t.

  28. Vista is WAAAAAYYY better than anyother OS!
    it is better in EVERY way over XP!
    idiot

  29. [...] and Windoze – the fight goes on Published February 2, 2008 media Tags: vista Entertaining post by a chap on lying games in Windows Vista and Linux. He’s pretty biased, but the fun and bias between the sides is to be had in the [...]

  30. Vista is terribly bloated. I’ll admit, i wasn’t too fond of XP either but hell, it trumps vista anyday.

  31. Computerguy36: you are totally right.

    Vista is the best OS ever. You changed my mind and made me see the light.

    Thanks!!!

  32. What a lot of tosh. Half those games are so history its not funny. I would expect Linux to run them better – the Linux windows is based on something so old. But in fairness, who the hell plays any of those games anymore?

  33. Hi. I am not a Windows fan, especially not a Vista fan. However, one thing not mentioned is that all video cards are not created equal. There is no real standard for video cards. So if some games do not work on your system, it may be that the game is not compatible with your video card.

    That said, I have windows 98SE inbstalled on a dual boot system with Sidux . Using Gedega, Medal of Honor Allied Assault, and Return to castle wolfenstein both run better than in Win98SE (with updated video and sound drivers).

    I think what works depends a lot on the exact system hardware, as well as drivers, and the operating system. Having seen and used Vista on a few computers (not mine), I will not be buying it. Ever.

    Other will use what OS they like. I will not be using any Windows products unless they greatly improve over time. I do not believe that this will happen until MS stops using anti-competitive, Dirty, and downright criminal practices, and focuses on competing by making a better product.

    To each his/her own.

  34. FTA: “On Wine in Linux (not Cedega):

    DirectX fails to install. This isn’t cool, but at least it doesn’t hang my machine.”

    Why are you trying to install DirectX – wine has this built in (and their support is much better than Cedega’s now, but that’s another comment). The installer shouldn’t be trying to install it either – it should see it’s already there.

  35. At this point in time id like to point out that with minimal tweaking vista can be 2-3 times smaller than normal XP installs by n00bs who never use msconfig or services.msc, Also, do either XP or WineX have DX10 ….. no, you may whinge, but the graphics in crysis still kick everything else’s ASS.

    Vista is not bloated. it has more features, some of which, yes theyre useless, and it does require more performance than the minimum to run properly, SO DID XP WHEN IT FIRST CAME OUT, anyways XP (by default) only supports up to 4 gigs ram …. a fair few people have more than that.

    ALL games run on vista with some tweaking, if they dont, the problem isnt vista, its drivers or the game – idiots at nvidia or EA who earn so much they dont care about service. BF2142 is a prime example of this, it runs on vista – its still a bad game, coded badly, bad performance …. whos whinging, when it works its still a kickass game to play.

  36. Funny how experiences differ. I haven’t had any problems at all running any of my games on Vista — including Civ4, which worked perfectly out of the box. Meanwhile I have never managed to get a single game to run acceptably on Linux with Wine or Cedega — one or two manage to load, but they are always either unplayably slow, or have hideously corrupt graphics.

  37. [...] rant in which he tells the story of being so frustrated with gaming on Windows Vista that he tried comparing gaming on Vista to that on Linux using Wine, with surprising [...]

  38. vista is terrable. it wont even use my laser jet
    EPL-5900 now i dual boot with xp and vista. i gave it a fair go, i TRIED to like it. it just causes so much grief and this is on a couple of month old pc, E2180 with 2 gig 667 ram with a 8600GT super.

  39. Vista might be unstable but so it’s linux.
    I cannot believe that there is more windows apps running in linux+wine than in vista.

  40. in this post:
    1. baawww a couple games crash vista
    2. Horray! They don’t work in Linux! Fuck yeah, Linux is a crowning achievement of independent development and anti-authoritarianism that will perpetuate the downfall of Microsoft! I’m an elitist fag!

    I played a round of Civ just before reading this post. For the heck of it, I installed and played Soldat just afterwards. Both worked fine, and I’m running an unpatched, pirated copy of Vista.
    After reading your article, I KNOW I won’t be switching over to Linux any time soon…

  41. For one who claims to be a Civ fan, how could you not know that the original run of Civ IV had a disk printing error? The “Disk 2 / Play” disk is *not* the disk you use to play the game. You use “Disk 1 / Install”. Yes, it’s weird, but it’s been that way since launch and was a result of a printing/pressing error, not a problem with Vista (or Wine).

  42. Civ4 does work in GNU/Linux with Wine (not Cedega) if you manually copy the .dll, it is complaining about in the output, to windows/system32.

  43. Great article, this shows how normal ppl (ppl who dont have time to find out y sumthing like a game dont work) that windows vista is not a updated operating system based on XP, its a total new piece of software that suck up the whole hardware just to show its desktop.
    I aways had tryed all my games on linux, this is not new to me that linux gaming is better, solving problems in linux is better as well (not rebooting after each try is great when u plan on keep trying till it work), new games from 2005 till now even being win games run very well on linux and games that have windows and linux clients run waaay better on linux (savage(r) is a game that i play alot and i get 50 fps on linux client and 23fps on windows client on the same machine).
    i adopted a simple way to play games on linux and make the performance even better, i close gdm (kdm or whatever graphical login screen) and i open a “xinit”, that saves up 10 fps on any game.
    Great article!!1

  44. Well, if M$ know Civ4 is wrong, they can do nothing but warn you. It’s the application’s programmer job to make sure the application works under an operating system (which should work as expected and described in the documentation and that it does, too).

  45. [...] just read a post about the fact Vista doesn’t support gaming very well. With the first part of his article I agree. Yes Vista uses more system resources with the [...]

  46. I’ve found the exact opposite. Linux often times runs slow, in part perhaps due to weak graphics drivers, but application run using Wine in particular are even slower. Once running they are ok, but they take longer to load, and some GUI drawing operations are sluggish too. Even single file executables take up to 4 seconds to load on a 1.9 Ghz machine.

  47. [...] February 2, 2008 by iGraphiX Posted on January 31, 2008 by diarrheaBot [...]

  48. [...] Linux tiene mejor compatibilidad con Windows que Vista [en]wastingtimewithmikeandari.wordpress.com/2008/01/31/linux-has… por atzu hace pocos segundos [...]

  49. I agree that Vista is a bloated, slow and incompatible piece of crappy software. I think it’s irresponsible from Microsoft to release an operating system that has to be tweaked and adgusted all over to actually run in an accepable way. This may not be alot of trouble for experienced users, but most users will be helpless when the OS crashes while they try to play their favorite game.
    A modern OS shouldn’t crash, ever. Especially if it runs programs that in theory where made to be run on it.

    There is no good reason to use Vista. Except DirectX 10 of course… thanks to Microsoft not releasing it for XP… I wonder why they would do that.

  50. ROTFLOL

    diarrheaBot thanks for the laugh ;)

  51. [...] incluso ya han superado a sus contrapartes Windows Vista. En un artículo en el blog "Wating time with Mike and Dari", hay un extenso artículo donde se detalla los problemas de compatibilidad encontrados [...]

  52. I don’t know what you’re doing wrong, but I’ve gotten several games working on Vista without any trouble or extra effort. Civ 4, Oblivion, Supreme Commander, World In Conflict, just to name a few.

    It really sucks that so many people out there rag on anything and everything Microsoft does, just because its Microsoft. Thats called bias, and that’s how idiots are born. I’ll admit in the past there were some not so great moves made by them, both legally and technologically, but you can’t judge present performance on past results. The two aren’t neccessarily the same.

  53. [...] Vista, the game killer Moi qui détestais déjà Windows Vista à cause de la cahoteuse histoire du portable de ma soeur (que je propose officiellement de surnommer La Boîte à Bogues), je viens de lire un intéressant billet en anglais où l’auteur dénonce que plein de jeux ne fonctionnent plus sur son ordi depuis l’installation de Vista. [...]

  54. Vista sucks, it’s the worst os ever made.

    If you know how to solve problems, fine, then “maybe” you could play, but a common user, will cry and curse for the games are simply not working.

    (Sorry for the english, but i’m not a native speaker)

  55. This is one of the web’s most interesting stories on Sat 2nd Feb 2008

    These are the web’s most talked about URLs on Sat 2nd Feb 2008. The current winner is ..

  56. A couple of things:

    1. By your own admission your pc is a little old, but as far as I can tell it’s just your video card, which is 3 generations behind what we have today (soon to be 4) . This is where I believe the majority of your problems lie.

    2. You’re right to expect an OS to be easy and not make things difficult, which is why I can confidently say that should you to buy a recently published game it would indeed perform as you expect.

    3. Wine is simply brilliant and if it was perfect I’d dump Windows in a heartbeat.

    4. Hating Vista was cool in 2007. It’s 2008 now though, so time to find something new to hate.

  57. Linux has better Windows compatibility than Vista… And better hardware compatibility (winmodems, ha!). And better interoperability (SSH, OOo). And just plain damn easier to use (KDE).

  58. A couple of things:

    1. By your own admission your pc is a little old, but as far as I can tell it’s just your video card, which is 3 generations behind what we have today (soon to be 4) . This is where I believe the majority of your problems lie.

    2. You’re right to expect an OS to be easy and not make things difficult, which is why I can confidently say that should you to buy a recently published game it would indeed perform as you expect.

    3. Wine is simply brilliant and if it was perfect I’d dump Windows in a heartbeat.

    4. Hating Vista was cool in 2007. It’s 2008 now though, so time to find something new to hate.

  59. well, one thing for sure, vista really sucks

  60. Thanks jundang

    1. 100% You’re right on this one, but MS did have a design and engineering goal that Vista would work properly on older machines. There is a better chance of these games working on a brand new rig, no question though. The Vista video drivers haven’t been updated in over a year, so its clear nVidia should take some of the blame here too as they have done a bad job supporting their product.

    2. Making things easy does not mean rebuying everything, or having to abandon things someone likes or needs. This is why Vista is a non-starter in institutions and enterprise settings. They can’t just stop using older software or legacy systems, its not an option.

    3. Right on, it isn’t perfect at all, but it is impressive. In my book its not a Windows replacement, but if you are switching to Linux, it helps alot.

    4. Sorry, I’m a bit behind the times here. Humor me and allow me to catch up?

  61. *yawn* bullshit…
    either you are incompetent or just hate Microsoft / Vista…
    dosbox works fine on Vista… so does Soldat… I don’t have Civ / Darwinia installed… but they work fine, too…

    dosbox: http://img3.imagebanana.com/view/fsid5gfc/dosbox.jpg
    Soldat: http://img3.imagebanana.com/view/qe1xq7w/soldat.jpg

    oh and it’s Vista x64… which is even less compatible than x86 :rolleyes:

  62. Seriously, I would like to see this with programs that most people would actually use. I like Linux but this is a poor argument because you are using games only a handful of people are going to use compared to say a poker game or some other windows applications that people would want to migrate.

  63. For Civ 4 Microsoft IS offering to fix it for you. By discarding the solutions box you have chosen not to allow them. A friend of mine experienced the same problem. The game maker had provided an update for Vista. In fact I got all my friend’s old games running on Vista (probably 5 of them) with some patches.

  64. You have linked to the Digg post. Please also link to the Slashdot discussion here:

    (corrected URL) Linux Has Better Windows Compatibility Than Vista:

    http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/02/0236200&from=rss

    There are many informed opinions talking about this article.

  65. Thanks for the flamebait, nutcase slashdot tags.

  66. [...] Vista, un usuario decidió comparar su desempeño también bajo Linux usando DOSBox y Wine. Y los resultados que encontró, aunque limitados a su experiencia personal, fueron sorprendentes: “Lo que me sorprendió [...]

  67. About Visual Studio 2005 – BULLSHIT! Did you even tried it?!

    I did – while installing (or immediately after, I don’t remember) a pop-up came and it said something about compatibility issues and recommended to download a service pack for VS2005 and fix for Vista. Downloaded both and VS2005 worked fine. Even when not running as administrator a pop-up appeared, which said that some parts may not work correctly when not run as administrator.

    What more can Vista do? Call MS representative to visit you and click on the “Yes” button for you?

    Also trying installing 2007 OS on very old hardware and complaining about compatibility… But Linux fans will be excited to read this bullshit.

  68. xXx:

    Its nice theres a popup and it tells you what to do. A better option? Automate the process, or correct it. I mean these things were both being developed in-house at the same time. Right?

    For VS2005, small issues are not a problem though, people using VS know how to correct these issues.

    This article is written from the perspective of 99+% of the people out there that are seriously inconvenienced or confused by this.

    When my mom’s audiobook software has a problem like this, what happens? Either she gets someone to fix it for her, or she just can’t use it anymore.

    Thats the point.

  69. Me ha ocurrido a mi también con aplicaciones como CorelDraw y algunos juegos, que no pude instalar o usar en Vista pero si en Ubuntu o Linux Mint. Es casi de broma pero últimamente primero instalo las cosas en Ubuntu y si no funcionan entonces lo intento en Vista.

  70. I got SolDat to work on my Vista machine. I was a little worried that it wasn’t going to due to the gray screen, but it took a few seconds to get it on the “login”. I also got DOSBox to work correctly as I remember I wanted to play some Indiana Jones and The Fate of Atlantis, same machine.

    I haven’t tried Darwinia, and I don’t have Civ4, but I’m not going to take this article anymore with a grain of salt, and it appears that the games were biased in some sense. Why really old-school/indie games?

    In any case, a lot of problems can be solved using two things: compatibility mode and disabling UAC (when the program absolutely requires an admin).

  71. Vista has always been and will continue to be a huge failure. I’m surprised a gamer would even own the POS. As more hardware vendors like Dell provide desktop Linux solutions to customers, gaming industries will eventually begin providing native Linux ports of their offerings. It may be years in the future, but will be the case. Since I don’t play video games much anymore I am more than happy to wait.

  72. [...] rant in which he tells the story of being so frustrated with gaming on Windows Vista that he tried comparing gaming on Vista to that on Linux using Wine, with surprising results. “This post is clearly a bit biased. What shocked me [...]

  73. My experience with Vista has been mixed. I have found that general hardware support is far better under Linux (I use Debian for servers or Ubuntu for desktops and laptops). Vista is ok for a brand new rig specially built for Vista, as you would expect, but if you have multiple computers with multiple configurations my experience is that Linux wins hands down for hardware support (yes even on new rigs). On my relatively new laptop (that I bought with XP just after Vista came out and that’s branded “Windows Vista Capable”) the hardware support was far better under Linux without any tweaking at all than it was under Vista even after manually installing drivers.

    The fact that there exists any game made for Windows that runs better on Linux under Wine than under Windows, XP or Vista, is pretty incredible. I found that WoW would run heaps better under Wine than it would under XP or Vista (yes I had the latest video card drivers, tweaked XP and Vista, blah blah blah). Oblivion on the other hand runs twice as fast under Windows (for me).

    In spite of all that the main problem I have with Windows is the release cycle. How many years between XP and Vista? I lost count. And from my experience Vista is just a catch up game to Linux, BSD and OSX. The “revolutionary new features” are things that have been around for years. UAC? That sort of thing was done better in Unix-like systems in the 1980’s (hello sudo). The “Aero” interface, I didn’t experience any “wow” when I first saw it. It’s just a hog, and Linux users had Compiz, which performs much nicer. By the time any new features for Windows have finally been released they’re old news.

    Anyway I could go on and on and I’m sure there are some Windows fan boys out there that have already got enough to have a go at.

  74. bullshit as I long time haven’t read.
    I use dosbox on my vista box without any problems, Civ 4 either.

    Rest of games mentioned are just no-name titles for me so I have no experience.

  75. I’ts not about how easy the fix is, or where to go looking.

    Microsoft serves something stupid like 80+ % of the desktop market, and they justify their MONOLITHIC install size of their OS with legacy support, mountains of drives, wizards, and auto diagnostic tools so that the average joe citizen who doesn’t know the difference between internet explorer and firefox can buy the computer plug it in shove some software into the drive and just have it go.

    The authors system configuration is completely irrealavent, he installed an OS that prides it self on plug and play compatibility.

    the fact that some people’s systems work for a certain thing and others do not is inexcusable.

    I’m currently on XP, and i have no overrideing desire to move to a linux distro, but i tell you from what i’ve seen vista is a cluster fuck waiting to happen, the day XP isn’t an option ill finally get off my ass and install linux.

  76. Lerris: Thanks for the comment – you put it very well. Its a combination of the size of the XP install base, user ability, and expectation that all make this problem so bad.

    Macs have gone through extreme changes over the last few years between architecture changes and OS rewrites, and people don’t seem to mind much.

    Similarly, if Ubuntu made a similar number of of breaking changes, its likely users would be capable of find fixes and workarounds without much trouble. They are also more likely to accept things not working correctly when running applications like Wine.

    So there’s clearly a double standard here, but there is a good reason for it. Its all about user expectations, and when those expectations are violated the breaks are especially damaging.

  77. Go.. Open Source :)

  78. Vista just doesn’t add up economically. New pc, massive amounts of ram and cpu power, expensive new graphics cards … I’m glad some ppl don’t mind spending a few thousand dollars to play video games, but that’s ridiculous!

    Spend a couple hundred dollars and get a decent console – it’s way cheaper and it will play games better than any pc (plus the company takes a hit on the hardware cost).

    Then throw Linux on your old pc and make it run like a million bucks – without spending a penny. Try loading Vista onto any machine more than 2 years old – it’s horrific.

  79. This is the most ridiculous piece of ‘proof’ i have ever seen. Look at the system requirements for ANY of those games? Say Vista on them? I think not…. how can you blame microsoft for games not working on it THAT WERE NEVER DESIGNED to in the first place? Add to that the fact that all those titles do in fact work.

    If you are having system crashes in Vista i recommend a BIOS update or finding out which piece of hardware is causing the crash, as I have been running 600+ Vista computers in a domain environement with alllll sorts of legacy software running (ACCPAC, Paradox to name a few) and have never seen a SINGLE system crash. I also have been using vista on a number of home/gaming computers and never had a single issue to date in more than 100 titles, most older than the operating system.

    Im not trashing Linux, far from it, the fact that Wine is able to run code designed for another system is incredible and to be applauded, but you dont have to print mistruths to get your point across.

    Also, i just want to say its fairly incredible to see people defending Vista from bogus claims on an article linked from slashdot.

    So your point is that Vista should run all software not designed for it without any twearking at all? When in order to get it running under linux you have to tweak it (running under Wine is a tweak, not business-as-normal btw). This just shows the reason that the mainstream wont adop to linux until its champions stop looking like lunatics to the rest of us. The day you get Crysis running properly in Linux posting higher numbers than under vista (In a proper testing enviroment ie. multiple hardware configs, running tests more than once) then i might buy into it thats it better for gaming. But it just isnt. Its better for webserving….

  80. [...] a noticia um bocado prepositada. É um usuario que notou que a maioria dos seus videojogos funcionam melhor [...]

  81. MacOS X > *

    /end

    I can run both linux/unix (MacOS is BSD based) and windows software all day long. Rock solid. tons of games being ported. It has NEVER crashed. Oh, and guess what. NO virus’, No spyware.

    I did install Vista on my MacBook. Its garbage. I use it maybe once every couple of months for 5-10 mins. I hate Vista….
    :)

  82. Vista is such a great success Microsoft extended the sales of XP, yep Vista is breaking all kinds of records. At the rate Vista is going the next version of Windows will be out in 2009 – XP w/ aero effects and dx10.

    XP is faster on the same hardware, more stable and of course compatible with more hardware and software. It may be 2008 but that’s no reason to start cutting Vista slack and singing it’s (very few) praises.

    Microsoft has jumped the shark.

  83. ~So your point is that Vista should run all software not designed for it without any twearking at all?~

    As a matter of fact, yes. How many gigs is the install? Remember my previous comment, windows installs are huge to include legacy support (thats ‘make older products still work’ in plain English) and what can only be called impressive collections of drivers to insure that any hardware you might plug in also works.

    Also keep in mind that this is a major marketing point for windows, its easy to use it comes with everything you need.

    The authors main point is that a OS that prides it self on being easy to use with everything is failing in that regard compared to anything else.

    Which is frankly sad, a multi gigabyte install from windows (remember that huge size is due to all the driver databases, auto detection wizards and other frills to make it easier to use than linux) is not preforming at its specified task better than an OS thats actually known to be a little on the difficult side when it comes to gaming.

  84. So far so good – The never ending discussion on Linux vs. Windows [ tea or coffee?]

    Do not blame Microsoft, or Windows, XP or Vista for not running your games, or any other apps for that matter. Blame the programmer who wrote the software, Blame him, but do not kill him. You can’t blame any programmer programming any game or application that their software do not run in Vista, or Xp, ME or W2K. They don’t stand a chance in hell writing software that runs under Windows. And Why is that? The answer is actually quite simple: Proprietary Software.

    Microsoft is not know to release any vital information on their software, AT ALL thus making it impossible for anyone to write software for Windows that works.

    In order to write working software for any OS it’s vital that you have all the info needed to make your software inter-operational. Microsoft does not release such information which most people seem to forget.

    Just to let you know: I run Debian Server and Ubuntu Desktop om my computers. No MS OS are allowed anywere near my hardware.

  85. Actually Lerris (Which btw if its a reference to the Recluce books props!) Microsoft has said from the getgo that because of the new security layers and changes to the kernal that not all software would work right out of the box. And I have done extensive domain level testing and found that the vast majority of legacy software does in fact run without any problems at all. Much better than it does under linux (Another operating system not designed to run this software).

    When microsoft went from 98 to win2k not all software ran, yet people didnt seem to have a problem then. You guys are creating claims that ‘microsoft’ has made that they plainly havent. They announced that the majority of software would run on vista problem free (true) but that some would not (also true).

    Im no fanboy, i run windows where windows is best and linux where linux is best (and macos where its best, but thats nowhere so i dont).

    The OpenGL arguments are the most valid i have seen to date, but the reason for that is the Shader Model 4.0 Unified shader architecture would by necessecity offloads much of the graphics platform to the video driver.

    I know you all hate microsoft, but letting that affect your judgement of a product is foolish, and unscientific. The author creates a hypothesis which is easily disproven, yet claims he has proven it. I have since tested the games he mentioned and it took me less than 2 hours to find, download, install and run them all properly with no issues whatsoever under vista. Yes Civ4 gives a compatability error and yes DOSBox requires an ini edit, but these are easily resolved, and the DOSBox issue is not one an uneducated user would encounter as they would not use it.

    All im saying is that if you want to compare gaming on vista and linux then produce a real comparison suite, with framerates and a proper presentation. You will clearly see which wins.

  86. Thanks Blaktron, its nice to have constructive comments.

    “All im saying is that if you want to compare gaming on vista and linux then produce a real comparison suite, with framerates and a proper presentation. You will clearly see which wins.”

    You are absolutely right – this is not scientific at all. Its nothing but a study of what happens with a few games (and an odd assortment at that – its what I like to play though) on my hardware. I wish I did have more time, hardware, and games to do more tests, but I don’t have those resources.

    In order to do something that is really convincing, it would really need to be a communal effort. Anybody want to help?

    If that is done, Vista may very well come out on top, but in my case its clear that it has not.

  87. I have 3 different modern computers currently running Vista, 2 of them have versions of Ubuntu on as well, the laptop dual boots vista and xp. All of them with modern hardware (dual core, 2 gigs of ram, DX10 video cards) that I would be more than happy to help you test with.

    To be honest though, the odds of a modern DX9 game running quicker under linux are pretty low, just because of the extra steps to the hardware that Wine and the linux subsytems involve.

  88. It is actually, love those books ^_^.

    Anyway, what it really boils down to for me is this; Windows is supposed to be the easy computer noob friendly option.

    Vista is seriously moving away from that.

  89. Haha well order mage, i tend to disagree, its not as easy to use for those of us looking for the hard way, but for n00bs its quite a bit easier…. and there are never problems to fix in my experience, things dont tend to degrade like they do in XP. Its funny that the linux community is so anti-vista because of the ways that microsoft made windows more similar to linux – the ‘root’ level access (through UAC, programs cant just do administrative functions without either clicking allow or putting in a password, similar to logging in as root). Now there are more of them, but once linux starts getting attacked by spyware like windows is you’ll see more functions restricted to root. ah well, cant please everyone right….

  90. This is bullshit.

    First, the link you use to show that Vista is slow is from January 2007. nVidia’s and ATI’s drivers sucked back then, but now they’re as fast on Vista as they are on XP.

    I don’t play Soldat or Darwinia, but I’ve had no problems with DOSBox or Civilization IV on Vista. I think in your case, it’s user error.

    Those last two links are crap too. Of course Vista had performance issues when it was an early beta. I’m sure Wine wasn’t perfect at that stage of its development.

  91. U GOT A SHIT LOAD OF RESPONCES
    I FEEL SORY FORR U

  92. wine develop under xp reference, but vista is out there far away from xp. that’s the point …

  93. I wouldn’t use Linux even if it was free. Oh, wait, it IS free and no one sane wants to use that crap. Software repositories? Give me a break. Wake me up when I can install anything I want, and setting up a new hardware device is as easy as it is on Windows.

    Linux belongs on servers, it’s worth nothing on desktops. And of course, as a gaming platform, it’s nothing but a joke.

  94. “100 Things People Are Really Saying About Windows Vista”, item #29: “Vista breaks my applications!” (Including games.)

    http://www.microsplot.com/news/2007/12/anything_speechless_100_things_people_are_really_saying_about_windows_vista

    And the pain goes on…

  95. DAMM DUDDE, on February 3rd, 2008 at 6:32 am Said:
    U GOT A SHIT LOAD OF RESPONCES
    I FEEL SORY FORR U

    ****************

    I feel sorry for your parents.

  96. Why did you try to install DirectX on Wine? Wine has it’s own DirectX-compatible API and Civ IV can be run on Wine (the free one)

  97. What version/flavour of Linux did you use??

  98. I haven’t used windows xp in 4 years, but my daughter-inlaw was having problems with her computer last week so I tried to help, she is running vista, well as I was piddling around on her puter, I felt like I was back in the stone age, i guess if you piss on a persons face long enough, they will learn to love it

  99. To Gordon.

    Have you ever used a Debian based distro? What program do you want to install? It’s as easy as “apt-get install ” or if you if you are scared of using a keyboard you can use a graphical front end like Synaptic.

    As for hardware, that might have been the case years ago but hardware support has come a long way on Linux, whereas on Windows with Vista it has gone backwards.

    I challenge you to name one real feature that Windows provides that Linux doesn’t, or didn’t years before. Game developers support is the exception, I concede that. I can also understand people liking Windows because it is what they are familiar with, but to say that modern Linux desktop distros are hard to use is a farce.

  100. Round Peg: Its mentioned in the article, but I was running Mepis. Love it.

  101. Hey,

    Great call! I’ve hosted you on my Blog. That is your great article.

    What I always wanted to do is run Linux off of a Play Station.

    Or, play M$ gaming off my PC. No big deal. I’m not a Gamer.

    But, like to see those complaints about Linux. Really!

    Best Regards,

    JJMacey
    http://www.jjmacey.net
    http://www.jjmacey.net/blog

  102. “Its funny that the linux community is so anti-vista because of the ways that microsoft made windows more similar to linux”

    Different religions may tolerate each other. It is different interpretations of the same religion that fights the most bitterly.

  103. Blaktron: If you are still interested, I’d be happy to have some more comparisons between Vista and Wine. If you get any results please post them here. I’m primarily interested in games published before Vista was released, and how they ran unpatched, and patched in both environments.

  104. What a load of crap. Sounds like your Vista machine may have bad RAM, an overheating CPU, or something of the like. Possibly a very, very bad driver but even that is unlikely as nearly everything is user-mode in Vista (assuming you’re using Vista-compatible drivers, WDDM display driver, etc).

    There’s absolutely no way those games could bring down your system. No way.

  105. Thanks Brandon,

    Its definitely not an overheating issue because its reproducible, and always occurs immediately, not after running the game for a period of time. Other high load situations don’t cause the problem. I also have a huge Zalman cooler on it.

    Same with bad ram, the system is otherwise totally stable, so games would have nothing to do with a ram issue.

    I suspect there may be a video driver problem, but there’s nothing I can do – I’m running the most recent version (checked as of 4 days ago). And I wouldn’t expect a company like NVidia to make bad drivers. They have talented programmers there of course.

    Also, some games do work fine with no stability problems. So the problem is triggered by particular programs not playing nicely with the OS / hardware.

    I also had none of these problems prior to switching to Vista, which makes the hardware explanation even less plausible.

  106. Sorry, but this is flawed.

    Your comparing the VISTA API which has changed SINCE XP to a XP emulated API?

    Is it just me or am I the only one who see’s this key piece of data which makes your article bullshit?

  107. Hmmm I’d agree that windows has a sort of dividing line, i ran into it switching from 98 to 2k back in the day and to a lesser degree 2k to xp.

    That line being of course how technically adept the user is, at a certain point a user is more frustrated with the automated this and that than they help, if you know the feature or setting you want to tweak and you understand how it functions navigating through menus and auto config wizards can become annoying, Especially if the automatic configs disagree with you. I actually ran into that issue my self on my first ever XP install, it was installed at a friends house (so i could borrow his expertise) and when i got it home it wouldnt go online (different network setups) Try as i might after running dozens of wizards it would not change the setting I needed.

    This was driven down to the last straw when the DHCP check boxes on my network properties was unchecked. If I could have checked that box problem solved, but because the OS was trying to protect it self from users who don’t know what they’re doing I couldn’t take the easy solution. To this day win98se is my favourite windows os because despite its serious instability I could absolutely lie my ass off at it if I wanted to and it would just take my word for it.

    Of course my main objection to Vista is that the OS has higher system requirements than any of the games I own. That just seems wrong to me.

  108. Yeah, sometimes the previous versions of drivers work with things and later ones don’t, try them …..

    All the games ive installed work fine, bf2+2142 required some tweaking … i tweaked them in XP as well. they run better under Vista than XP by 20 something fps
    TF2 has problems due to the overlay (this occurs in XP as well – therefore it is steams problem)
    crysis runs fine – cept errors in programming (ie spawn as ragdoll ….. gg EA – idiots without any idea how to program) still got good gfx

    All the office series + msn works, all our printers work with it

    All of my hardware works with vista (even a webcam that isnt vista compatilble) so dont whinge about compatibility.

    ALSO XP is bloated – i can point out at least 10 services in XP that are useless ……. its the same for vista …. normal users who have 2 gigs of ram with vista are fine …. remember when XP was brought out, you needed something like that (twice what was reqd for 98/00/ME (fail))

    IF YOU TWEAK EITHER THEY RUN EXPONENTIALLY FASTER

    Vista makes you buy a better computer … then you tweak it, so incidentally it runs faster than XP anyway

    HOWEVER …. all OS’s depend on different configurations – some just don’t like your hardware

    kthxbye

  109. [...] tema es muy extenso, pero no quería cerrarlo sin antes brindarles un link en donde se muestra una clara comparación de usar Linux y emular o tener Vista y no poder usar su [...]

  110. Intresting article, I have to say tho I am a big civ fan and run civ 4 with both expansions flawlessly on Vista, I’ve not once since the error you posted.

  111. Good work on that! But if you compare the performance you will see that WinVista sucks much more than LinuX and XP of course

  112. [...] Time With Mike And Ari recently wrote an interesting comparison between Linux and Windows Vistafor playing older Windows games. Whilst the study was more than a little biased and perhaps not [...]

  113. [...] możemy przeczytać na pewnym blogu, próba uruchomienia kilku gier wcześniej używanych pod Windows XP pod systemem Windows Vista [...]

  114. Not being the first but I have to emphase. Darwinia is available as native Linux Game like all other games from Introversion.

  115. Thanks bed,

    Didn’t know about that, I’ll test it out and post results when I get some time.

  116. [...] Vista, un usuario decidió comparar su desempeño también bajo Linux usando DOSBox y Wine. Y los resultados que encontró, aunque limitados a su experiencia personal, fueron [...]

  117. Also with wineX or cedega onna my mates got steam running (ie cs and hl2 etc) and he reckons it runs better on vista (2.something dual core, 3g ram, 8600) than it does on wineX (same comp)

  118. if you have powerfull hardware, you ‘ll understand how great vista is.

  119. Thanks Kukira

    I ran Vista on my Core 2 Duo 2.3 ghz, 2 gig ram laptop, and I still didn’t think it was good enough (and downgraded to XP), so although a fast computer makes it less bad, I still did think it was acceptable, regardless of the hardware underneath.

    I want my cycles going to something useful, and running programs that actually work.

    WS 2008 may be the right answer though.

  120. Isn’t it funny that having to mess around to make something work under Vista is bordering on evil, but taking the software over to linux and having to do the same thing is cool?

  121. I have to agree with Lerris’ previous comments about the magnitude of the size of Vista, and the fact that Windows is supposedly designed to be backwards compatible with its older systems. If Vista isn’t going tyo work with older hardware/software, then why so huge?

    Gordon: I can plug in my printer in Ubuntu 7.10, turn it on, and it is installed. I don’t even have to wait for a “Found New Hardware Wizard”.

    Kukira: Do a search of Vista versus Ubuntu plus Beryl in YouTube. There is hardly a comparison. Ubuntu installs with 256 MB of ram and a couple gigs of HDD. With a decent (even older) graphics card, all the desktop effects are at your disposal. Let me see Vista with Aero do THAT! And Ubuntu, like most linux distro’s, is free. They’ll even ship you some cd’s and stickers for free, if you ask. Who needs “powerful hardware” + $200 – $400 OS, when you can get all this for the hardware you already have?

    Ben: The difference is that in linux, you give up a little bit of time (maybe, not always), but in Vista, you have to buy a new computer and/or pay $200 – $400 for the OS, PLUS give up a little bit of time. Yes, that is evil, in my book. If not evil, then at least STUPID!!!

  122. To the originator of this thread: Are you kidding? I’m not going to whine (so to speak) if I can’t play Ms Pacman on Vista but it works in Linux. I thought you said GAMING. I just built a system from the ground up. I play everything up to and including Crysis nicely. Took a long time, but I saved up for decent parts. It’s easy to blame the OS but you have to consider your CPU, RAM, GPU and HD performace. Take a look at your system and try to see where YOU cheaped out before blaming Vista. Vista is exactly where XP was at this age and in a Service Pack or two it will take the lead. It’s for serious gaming, but there is a cover charge. Or, just go back to playing with worms.

  123. PNutHed:

    Don’t be so bitter. I know you’re angry because you’re jealous that my computer sucks and yours doesn’t.

    To be honest though, I don’t really give a crap about Crysis, I’m more happy playing on my Mame cabinet when I have a few minutes to waste.

    When I do buy a new machine though, it’ll be running Windows Server 2008, not Vista. If both are going to give me headaches, I’d rather have an OS that gives me headaches because its too lean, and my expectations are that its going to give me trouble… as opposed to Vista which is supposed to “just work,” but doesn’t.

    I’m not a hardcore gamer, and don’t advertise to be, but if you are claiming that Vista is only good for Intel quad-core with SLI setups, then is there any real broad appeal for that OS?

    That’s why I think its a dud. Of course there are features that are great, but overall its great for almost nobody.

    -bot

  124. [...] מסתבר שאם רוצים לשחק משחקים, עדיף להריץ אותם על לינוקס עם WINE מאשר על ויסטה. אני עדיין מעדיף את [...]

  125. “Success is a lousy teacher. It seduces people into thinking they can’t lose.”

    BILL GATES

  126. [...] Vista is actually less compatible with XP than some versions of Linux which run a Windows emulator. Linux developers have been working for years to integrate data produced in either OS, into the opposite system, so people feel comfortable about switching between the two. The world is largely Windows based, with a growing Mac UNIX population, and growing Linux community as well. Linux has had to focus on finding ways to read otherwise unreadable and locked Windows generated information, so I think they may even have an advantage over the Microsoft Vista developers who’ve put interoperability on the back burner. Sphere: Related Content [...]

  127. Quake 2 will NOT run on Linux under Wine. It gives you an error. However, it works fine in Windows Vista.

  128. Many people here seem to complain about the comparison not being “fair”. I’d say the “fairness” of a comparison depends on whether it is useful for what you want to do with it.

    This comparison seems to be targeted towards people who want to choose between using windows Vista or (Linux + ) Wine. The typical user, as implicitly assumed here,
    1) doesn’t want to spend hours in tweaking and fixing problems
    2) has some old no-longer maintained applications (like Civilization) he/she really wants to use
    3) is not afraid to make an alternative choice, different from the masses ( = use Linux instead of windows).

    I think there are LOTS of people belonging to groups 1) and 2). Now, what reason could these people have to use (expensive) Vista instead of (cheap) Linux?

    A) Vista works better for them than Linux ( = better technology)
    B) Vista is already pre-installed, or it sounds and feels like windows, so windows people expect it to be easier to learn than Linux, or These people simply don’t belong to group 3) ( = better psychology)

    The statement made in this article is that A) is not the case for the author, so it may also not be the case for some of its readers. The goal is to increase awareness that the only thing keeping people tied to microsoft is pure psychology. It’s like a prison’s doors opening after many years, but the prisoners are not escaping because they are used to it and it’s warm and comfortable inside but cold outside.

    To the author: it seems you used the windows version of DOSbox inside Wine. Why didn’t you use the native Linux version? It probably wouldn’t have had these sound problems. And, using the native Linux version is more realistic, because most users would choose to do so in real life.

  129. Well, I found a bunch of really HOT games that don’t need wine, and I think a couple (at least) are better than windows supported ones. Here’s one example: http://ubuntulinuxhelp.com/top-12-best-games-for-ubuntu-linux-10-rtcw-enemy-territory/

  130. Play on PlayStation
    Work on PC.
    It’s as simple as that. And then you’ll be contented with whatever you have – Win XP/2003/Vista/2008 MacOS, Linux, etc.
    Ok, it’s a wishful thinking, but still… You can use microscope to nail but you generally won’t do it, right?

    Err… Well, you may not be contented with Vista – I’ve given up on making it work properly with my laptop after about two months of brainf*cking.

  131. I hav[e a lot of old win 95 games[which,except for 'Fallout Tactics'] don’t run on win vista! What a shocker they would take fat32 compatability out of vista[win 2k ran fat32 beautifully!!!] What I would like to know is if wine will sell a program that runs win95 games[at least!!!] on windows vista[I own a compaq presario f500 laptop with a amd chip[ugh!--difficult to install linux!!] and would like to SOME day run my win ’95 applications!

  132. I have to say vista doesn’t work for poop. I am the IT guy for my company (tune-a-fish) and I have been trying my heart out to get them to go back to XP (or at least get more ram), but they don’t seem to understand or care. They made me update the computers to vista and now they bi*&h about them running slower than they did before.
    The average comp we use is a p4 (dual core 2.0) 1gig ram system.

  133. I assume you mean dual – proc?

    Anyway, that sucks, those processors and 1 gig of ram is definitely not going to allow the computer to keep its head above water when running vista. You may want to check out WS2008, its much less bloated but has all the important stuff Vista brings to the table (pricey though).

  134. Civilization 4 runs very good on Wine on my PC. It has some small issues like when I zoom out the globe turns black (did not have that when running under XP). I run it with the latest patch. The game runs as fast and sometimes seems even faster than under Windows XP.

    Follow the tips listed here to get it working better.

    http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iAppId=2514

  135. diarrheaBot wrote on 1 Feb
    “To prove that I have a brain, and can see positive aspects in everything, my next post will be on the improvement Vista brings to the table. How about that?”

    Did you write it? I’ve had a look, but cannot find it. Has it some obscure intro and heading?

  136. Vista has certainly got better with the service pack 1 (SP1) update – in fact it has been less troublesome in comparison to the recent fiasco with service pack 3 (SP3) for Windows XP. The latter has caused so many problems that its incredible there was no QA process before its release. Nevertheless XP is a lot better in running games and most other applications

  137. I have a fair bit of experience with various MS products (MCSD+) as well as with Linux and Unix as Desktop and server OSs.

    My personal opinion is that Vista is a slow and bloated piece of shit.

    I purchased a new HP laptop “Built for Vista” and I have to say it’s performance leaves alot to be desired. Simple things like surfing the web are painfully slow, compare that to the Debian or PCLinuxOS installs on the same machine and everything is turned around 10 fold.

    I’m not a big gamer and I really don’t care what games work and don’t work, but in general I have recently been making a huge move to FOSS.

    It’s just a matter of time before all manufacturers in my industry (carrier telecommunications) embed web interfaces into their hardware for me to plug into and administer.

    I understand that windows has it’s place, I also understand that some people live and have grown up on MS products and have a hard time moving to an alternative. The thing is these are the same people that don’t really pay attention to how fast their machine boots or how their applications load. They are happy with what they know and I am happy for them to remain that way. For the rest, there is *nix =P

    Happy Blogging!

  138. I still prefer XP than Vista, i have 2 laptop at home, Vista keep going blue screen and ask me to update, after update, still the same thing happen. What a waste, i still prefer XP, i will change to fully Vista when it is stable enough.

  139. I think a better approach is games that don’t need wine. I’ve actually found a some games that are way better here: http://ubuntulinuxhelp.com/top-12-best-games-for-ubuntu-linux-1-tremulous/
    My favourite’s are Tremulous and RTCW Enemy Territory

  140. maybe I shouldn’t comment here,but I can’t say I agree or disagree about this article.I myself have run many different versions of linux for the learning side to find out what linux is all about,and I have vista running right now.From what I can see at this point is vista,atleast on my machine,is a pain in the ass,but it runs my video games really well.My big issue with vista is compatablility issues with hardware,and oh yes,the blue screen of death when you install something it doesnt like.I have run games on a bunch of different linux systems including ubuntu and got them to run fairly well.IMO,ubuntu linux smokes vista as an operating system,but any person who has used linux,knows in order to get windows apps including games,on linux,you have a little work ahead of you.thats why I use windows for my everyday stuff and linux is my “trial and error”fun to mess around with OS. The verdict is out for my honest opinion of vista,because it hasnt done anything to impress me yet,but who knows,maybe 4yrs after sp1,vista will be what xp is today and everyone will hate win7.lol

  141. Early on there was a post mentioning a “fresh” install of Vista. They really should put an expiration date on the Windows Vista box since it is just like most food items: It’s great when you use it fresh, but it eventually spoils and is better off in the trash. That’s why I use Linux . . . no expiration date!

  142. Whats wrong with Vista? Open source is not always the answer to everything. ;)

  143. I have Vista too and I hate it! I would’ve gotten a Mac if I wasn’t low on moolah.

    http://www.mycarauctionreview.com

  144. I say linux is better than windows if your talking about compatibility.. but i also like my games that I can play on Windows without having to install VMware to use them.. Those are just my opinons.. Later

  145. Windows will always be the best platform for games.

    Linux is good for servers and basic browsing because it installs less software in it.

  146. [...] пользователей показали, что гараздо проще найти старые Windows-приложения, [...]

  147. Hi,
    I too agree that “Linux has better Windows compatibility than Vista”.. Because iam using linux platform for all my games. Linux is very fast to access when compared to Vista. Lots of my friends facing many problems through vista.

    ——————-
    John

    Wide Circles

  148. [...] has better Windows compatibility than Vista http://wastingtimewithmikeandari.wor…ty-than-vista/ "We all know Vista sucks. But recently my blood has been set to a rolling boil by the fact [...]

  149. if you get the native directx dlls from a windows install of from the directx installer and put the in system32 or the civ folder civilization4 works EXCELLENT in wine.

  150. На самом деле, как говорится – Без пользы жить – безвременная смерть.

  151. yeah, thats the reason that i never changed my xp to vista !

    vista sucks big time!

    http://betterworldforus.wordpress.com

  152. this is total crap i run civilization4 on Vista and have 0 problems, author is just an idiot… or fuckin linux fan…

  153. Well, I use Vista (64-bit SP-1) and I have to say that I never was so happy with an operating system in my life…. and I have used most versions of Windows, MacOS of the past 10 years and quite a few Linux distributions. In terms of stability and speed it just beats anything else I’ve ever used. That’s with Aero (stupid) and UAC (even more stupid) disabled, mind you. I don’t get how so many people call these the worst things of Vista (and rightly so), but don’t seem to consider just turning them off. You’d be surprised.

    As for games, I have had almost no compatibility problems yet, except for some 95/98 era titles that made at least as many problems in XP. They also broke something with the DirectX update that was included in SP-1, I don’t know if they fixed that yet, but I guess SP-1 has fixed a lot of other games. The only problem I have now is the lack of a 16-bit mode for older Windows games, I don’t really understand why they kicked that out, but it forces you to use VirtualPC + a legacy OS.

    As for games that run in Linux/Wine but don’t on Vista, try using the Windows version of Wine. Sounds weird at first, but they have pre-compiled Windows binaries available at WineHQ.

  154. I’ll start off and say that I run XP/Vista/Ubuntu Linux machines.

    On my Vista box I run Civilization 4 quite often and never once I have seen a compatability prompt for that game. Not once. I have however seen one Compatability prompt and that was for Visual Studio 2005 but it doesn’t cause any functionality issues it just warns you about the administrator privileges.

    UAC for Vista was the start of a paradigm shift for the security model, its not great but its a start. For ages Windows users used admin or “root” access to the machines and programs like-wise expected admin access. Many modern games for XP like the battlefield franchise still expect admininstrator privileges.

    I don’t believe the prompt is a passing the buck deal here its telling you that the developer of the application wasn’t playing nice.

  155. Я конечно в этом не особо разбираюсь, но после вашего поста стал гораздо больше понимать. Благодарствую :)

  156. Vista really sucks. Linux is better because it is opensource and you can easily fix anything.

  157. Wow i can’t believe how many M$ fanboys are coming out of the woodwork here, the only reason you guys bash Linux is because you’re too brain damaged to know how to use it.

    Enjoy your bloated 500gb windows installs lol, i could run all the latest versions of Linux on old as hell hardware and it would work like a dream….try running Windows Vista or 7 on older hardware LOL it will take up your entire hard drive with just a default install haha, use your entire ram and run slow as hell.

    Windows is nuttin but an unstable resource hog of an OS with a pretty display.

    Oh and the whole…20 billion new windows viruses a day thing, cant forget that -_-

  158. What a load of shit from a vista hater.

    And the regurgitation from your fans is kind of sad. Quickly everyone jump on the “Vista is shit” bus. OR to give it its full name the “Vista is shit because I know absolutely nothing” bus.

    Microsoft didn’t ‘break’ anything, the vast majority of vista was written from scratch with security and stability in mind. And guess what? It’s ran perfectly for me on a large selection of hardware from an old semperon to my netbook (8gig SSD) to my main pc. And who’s the fanboy saying ‘Linux’ will run on ‘old as hell’ hardware? Dumshit doesn’t even know what he’s comparing. Try the latest version of Kubuntu on your ‘old as hell hardware’ matey, let me know how that goes. I have ubuntu 10.04 on my netbook at the minute and im really looking for something lighter.

    If a games developer wants to support a new platform then its their responsibility to test and fix any bugs that occur, not the platform developer. twat. All the retards expected their old games for XP to work on a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT platform. Dam this is like explaining physics to a dog, i very much doubt you’re going to understand any of what im saying but im fairly sure you’ll have a generic “Vista is shit” answer, noone forced you to buy it gobshite, reinstall XP on your shit old hardware and play your games from ‘developers’ that didnt test their game with the biggest and best OS in the world.

    I am a software developer, I worked in the games industry, I’ve written programs and games for XP, vista and 7 (along with winMobile, symbian, android, J2ME, PSP and even a bit of linux).

    Oh and by the way I am a fan of Ubuntu, im running it on my main PC, not a windows fanboy, I use windows 7 in work, but i prefer vista as i’ve found it more reliable.

  159. Great post thanx a lot

    Greetz Joris

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